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 Vibration Collars- whats your view?

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Cassieloomismyers
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PostSubject: Vibration Collars- whats your view?   Sat 30 Apr 2011, 9:00 pm

So....to cut a long story short Adam is going to use a vibration collar on Myers for long distance training in anticipation of correcting his dog aggression issues that sometimes occur when an offlead dog approaches.

I'm 50/50 and we are both going to try out the collar on ourselves before putting it on Myers.

Some of Staffiezone members know me personally and know Adam and the bond he has with our dogs so rest assured we are not irresponsible owners and I've not started this thread to be told I shouldn't use it but i would like to hear what other peoples views are on them.
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lindauk
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration Collars- whats your view?   Sat 30 Apr 2011, 9:13 pm

i know nothing about them
am i right that they just vibrate and not give shocks ?
like to give a pull up and take notice and stop signal ?
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xclairex1
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration Collars- whats your view?   Sat 30 Apr 2011, 9:14 pm

Do you mean vibration or shock?

I have used a spray collar in the past and would use it again,we used it to get Kai's recall 100% along with a training line and it was only needed for about 2 weeks and did exactly what we needed.

You could maybe correct the recall to begin with rather than sorting the aggression as the vibration could escalate things.

Don't agree with the shock collar but think the others are alright as long as they are used properly .

A few folk have asked to borrow ours but I haven't lent it out as I'm not sure they would use it properly
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Cassieloomismyers
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration Collars- whats your view?   Sat 30 Apr 2011, 9:28 pm

its a "shock" collar with 3 options, shock, vibration and sound and Adam has done lots of research on them, they are used on working hounds and to train deaf dogs. Adam puts in 110% to training our dogs and he always researches training methods thoroughly before trying them out.

To be fair Myers recall is as good as it gets but he has, on occasion, when him and Loomis have been playing offlead chased off an offlead dog that has approached to join in the play and it is this scenario that we are struggling to break his focus on the other dog, i fear it is only a matter of time before he chases off a dog that is not going to run away but challenge back and that will end in disaster.

Myers Is a big Stafford, he is strong and only 15 months old, we want these issues nipped in the bud. I will keep you all updated.
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lindauk
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration Collars- whats your view?   Sat 30 Apr 2011, 9:34 pm

please do keep us updated
if its a tool and it doesn't cause the dog any cruelty or pain
i cant see any wrong in it
its a sad fact we have to have better controlled dogs because of the breed
but any cur can run amok and nothing is said
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xclairex1
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration Collars- whats your view?   Sat 30 Apr 2011, 9:36 pm

Not something I would use, although many people are against spray collars but it worked for us.

BUT, I'm sure you've researched it thoroughly and wouldn't use it if you felt it was too much.

Hope it works for you, If it solves the problem and means you can be more confident then it would be great keep us updated on your progress.

Just one tip get a waterproof one, then you can use it all the time. We used a petsafe one which both collar and remote charged from the mains.
Try the site "british dog" they offer trial periods so you can get the majority of your money back if you decide it's not for you

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wids
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration Collars- whats your view?   Sat 30 Apr 2011, 9:57 pm

Honest answer - I hate these collars and I would never ever use one on my dogs.

My personal opinion is that they would be useless in any case of aggression. I can't see how adding shock, surprise or possibly pain to a dog already stressed would help reduce aggression.





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Maistaff
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration Collars- whats your view?   Sun 01 May 2011, 8:06 am

I thought about getting a spray one for Piper for when she was off lead as she had a thing for ragging her sisters collar when they were off lead and playing in the end i went for a muzzle and used it only a handful of times for short periods and thankfully my problem was resolved

I don't think they are wrong or bad if used correctly and having met you both i don't think for one second either of you would miss use it in any way shape or form so you have nothing to loose, only really to gain if it has the effect you guys are looking for

Best of luck with what you decide
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Cassieloomismyers
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration Collars- whats your view?   Sun 01 May 2011, 9:05 am

Thanks for your replies guys, I too thought a surprise may escalate things when he Is chase mode though the trick is to like any correction I suppose and will only work when applied at the critical time before it happens.

There will be no pain felt for myers, none of us will use anything that hurts him. Our correction method is a touch to the neck that mimics the correction his mother would have given to him, we have used this method since we got him and he responds fantastically to it, he knows if we touch him he has gone to far. We are hoping the vibration will mimic this touch on occasions when he is out of reach so that it stops him, we gain his attention and then he can 'hear' that he is being recalled.
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wids
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration Collars- whats your view?   Sun 01 May 2011, 10:31 am

Just to add re "pain" I meant the collars in general - no way would I think you would inflict this on any dog spinner smile
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Staffylover
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration Collars- whats your view?   Sun 01 May 2011, 12:28 pm

Knowing you both very well Zoe I know Adam will have fully researched it beforehand.

Having seen how the dogs can get engrossed with one another when they are playing I can see why you need to correct this. Reuben can and does the same when distracted and I have contemplated going back to my whistle in these circumstances but I know you already use a whistle.

I would be interested to see and feel the collar when you get it. I have always said these collars would be a no no for any of my dogs but as there is no pain involved then I hope it works for you

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janandruby44
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration Collars- whats your view?   Sun 01 May 2011, 8:07 pm

Can I put my twopence worth in? Perhaps the emergency stop or down would be something to think about? Perhaps with the collar? We have used it with Elsdon and it has worked but usually when he is coming towards us, it also worked once when we were on a campsite and he got out of Dave and was walking away. You have to shout down or wait as if their life depends on it and pretend they are about to cross a busy road. If Myers listens to Adam then it is worth a try.
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Cassieloomismyers
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration Collars- whats your view?   Wed 04 May 2011, 6:17 pm

hello board, this is Adam.

The use of the collar has two parts to it part one is as a correction for choosing to ignor a comand that is known by myers, i never correct my dogs for not doing something they do not know how to do 100% this destroys the dogs drive for training and the relationship with the handler.
Myers knows his recall command thus when he is off leash should he chose not to follow the command a correction will be given, as soon as he turns to comply with the command and he will recieve his reward/release marker ie "yes".

The second part to its use is going to be for on leash dog aggrtion issues, in this respect it is used exactly the same as a leash correction (along with correct handler positioning) when approching another dog (when there is no danger posed from the other dog) should myers begin to show behaviour that would build up to aggretion a "shock" will be delivered along with his verbal correction comand.

obvously should agretion in the form of a fight or a full disply of vocal chalange occur prior to a "shock" it would be counter productive to administer a "shock". At this stage other methods would be employed.

"Wids" I will be honest I dont know you myself but i will go out on a limb here and say this, to make such a bold statment about a traning tool with out putting any form ofevidence to support your ideas is not productive. also having such an attitude does nothing in the way of promoting effective humain training methods.

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Cassieloomismyers
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration Collars- whats your view?   Wed 04 May 2011, 7:51 pm

Oi ,Mr Adam I did ask for everyones views!

Jo saw on Monday a couple of occasions when had myers been wearing it we would have used it and I think that has made her understand us using one a little easier?


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Staffylover
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration Collars- whats your view?   Wed 04 May 2011, 8:06 pm

Yes I did see it both with Myers and Reuben and I must admit I felt a little uncomfortable on that field as I did not have a clear view and was worried about them running off together playing chase and bumping into another dog as I dont know how Reuben would react.
This is not something I worry about too much when we are up at Blackstone Edge as we rarely see anyone so I dont mind them running around too much but do want him/them to come back when called

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janandruby44
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration Collars- whats your view?   Wed 04 May 2011, 9:42 pm

Adam everyone has to use whatever they can to control/discipline their dogs. For months Glynn and I used a tin on Elsdon and I got some really weird looks using it in public but it has worked for us and I have recently re-introduced it as Elsdon has a tendency to become deaf again on occasions. I would never abuse him with it and it is only ever thrown on the floor as an "oi, listen to me!" effect.

Your use of the vibration collar is your way of doing the same and as I'm not in your shoes I would never judge you for it.

If it works for you I would never knock it. Good luck with Myers' training with it.
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wids
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration Collars- whats your view?   Wed 04 May 2011, 10:06 pm

Cassieloomismyers wrote:
hello board, this is Adam.


"Wids" I will be honest I dont know you myself but i will go out on a limb here and say this, to make such a bold statment about a traning tool with out putting any form ofevidence to support your ideas is not productive. also having such an attitude does nothing in the way of promoting effective humain training methods.




Adam I wil be equally honest in return I have simply stated my opinion - I am not required to support it with evidence and in respect to my "attitude" the last person who used that type of remark to me was a teacher when I was at school.

I don't appreciate nor expect to be "spoken" to like that in the adult world on a forum.

I would also point out I would have no reason to promote what you refer to as an effective Humane training method that I do not and will not ever agree with.
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janandruby44
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration Collars- whats your view?   Wed 04 May 2011, 10:31 pm

I think it's best that you two agree to disagree.

And I'm not 100% perfect neither spinner smile
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K999
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration Collars- whats your view?   Thu 05 May 2011, 9:37 pm

I've never needed to use any remote collers in my behavioural work, I'm not a fan of gadgets. I prefer to use techniques which dogs fundementally understand, i.e. body language and posture.

If tension is an issue I'd prefer to sort it 100% in every scenario before letting it offlead where it may fail to be able to stay relaxed and happy.
but there are many ways to teach and you can only use the one that you understand and that makes sense to you. I see dogs as family members and want them to have the same manners I'd expect of my kids, stay calm, be polite and remember the manners I taught them. Does anybody use coercive gadgets on children?
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janandruby44
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration Collars- whats your view?   Thu 05 May 2011, 9:47 pm

I know I'd like to put some kids in crates but other than that no, I reckon kids have the upper hand anyway as they learn to speak our language and dogs have to learn by lots of repetition and consistency. I watched a good video by some blokes in America called K9-1 demonstrate what a dog does and doesn't understand when we are training them. They used a bloke to be the dog and shouted incomprehensible words at him and expected him to understand and then alpha rolled him. Had a good impact on me as it made me think about how me and Glynn train our dogs.

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PostSubject: Re: Vibration Collars- whats your view?   Thu 05 May 2011, 9:55 pm

K999 wrote:
Does anybody use coercive gadgets on children?

agreed

I wouldnt use them personally, I think there is a way to train every thing/one/dog without using them.
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