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 aggressive behaviour help

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tracy barry
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PostSubject: aggressive behaviour help   Tue 15 Dec 2009, 10:11 pm

please help. my young staffie attacks my male, when he barks every time the door knocks. she has been doing this for some time but just nips,but tonight she attack him could not get her of can understand why this is happening. please please help.
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Mandy
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Tue 15 Dec 2009, 10:22 pm

You can try to desensitise the male to stop him barking at the door, you can buy CD's cheaply enough on ebay for this, but that takes time. Is she a normally timid or shy dog? or is usually confident? Is she coming into or leaving her season? I may not be able to help you out too much but I am sure with enough information about the situation there are people in here who will be able too. Best of luck hun xx
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tracy barry
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Tue 15 Dec 2009, 10:33 pm

hi mandy yes she is timid but she has never done is before she has no seasons she been done. htankyou for your help hun. xx
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Jo n Buffs
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Tue 15 Dec 2009, 11:44 pm

ill be interested to read ideas on this one as if and when i do have another dog i can be prepared although i know it wont be buffy as she doesnt bark until they come in the house but i think thats because we tell her to shhh usually and have rewarded her when she has been quiet with having a baby in the house .
sorry i cant offer any advice Tracey hun ive never had two dogs together so never had to handle a situation like this hope you sort it though hun
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Angel
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 8:12 am

how old is she now tracey ?
its common for the younger ones to start trying out their place in the pack to so to speak as they get older she could literally be trying to be top dog think 2 yr old child feeling more aware that they can demand and strop this s the same in dogd to an extent she is getting more settled and trying to be more assertive one simple trick you can try when she does this is to use a distraction technique this could be squirting water at her or shaking something noisy so she stops thiks whats that and the behaviour is stopped

you can do this every time your male barks too is he castrated as well ?
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Eddi and Daisy
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 12:37 pm

I don't mean to take over the thread but i have a similar case with daisy and eddi whenever paul gets home or visitors but more paul or me coming home, eddi gets really excited but have worked hard on getting eddi to sit and stay sitting that way he gets fussed, but daisy will attack him and wont stop until i take her away from the situation.
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Angel
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 1:11 pm

again shes still young and trying to assert herself jackie shes getting older and more independant and was to show it some of it is playful but can quickly become aggressive if not nipped in the bud now same applies really firm voice saying no make her sit every time she does it basically is a continuous thing and can be sorted easliy or may take longer it all depends on the dog
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Eddi and Daisy
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 1:15 pm

I will work on it eddi sits barely has he is so excited daisy goes deaf lol
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tracy barry
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 1:34 pm

she is 15 months now yes eddie has been caserated but never seen her do anything like that as last night, we couldnt get her off eddie, in all the time i have had dogs i have never came across this before.
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Angel
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 1:44 pm

as he has been done too there is no hormomes for them to be dictated by ie if he wasnt done then she would see im as the leader so to speak so it can become like this as she is trying to assert her authority over him now as to al in tent they are both the same like having the same sex both done they are equal if that makes sense and the females do tend to be worse for this in most cases (bit like us really lol ) it may be a case of putting a fabric muzzle on her and getting someone to knock on the door so that you can actually spend time working with her and making her learn that its nt acceptable to attack etc the muzzle will ensure that while you get to grips with it you dont get an all out fight

ie let some one knock so she starts then pull her back saying no firmly and put muzzle on then and do this over and over untill you feel confident enough to remove it and carry on but make sure you do this on a day when you have time to start and complete it and that you are relaxed too maybe after a nice walk with them to tire her out a bit s she is ready to learn and take it in


Last edited by Angel on Wed 16 Dec 2009, 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tracy barry
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 2:03 pm

what you have said makes alot of sence thanks for your advise, i have took your advice and im going to start training at weekends, does a treat come into it? and a big thankyou
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Eddi and Daisy
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 2:09 pm

I would use treats tracey high value ones such as small bits of hot dog sausage or cornedbeef my two will work harder for yummy treats.
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Angel
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 2:12 pm

thats ok your welcome i hope it works :0)
you can reward her yes that will help her learn quicker too keep us updated
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Mattie
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 7:06 pm

tracy barry wrote:
please help. my young staffie attacks my male, when he barks every time the door knocks. she has been doing this for some time but just nips,but tonight she attack him could not get her of can understand why this is happening. please please help.

You need to put good management in place to make sure she can't attack your other dog, each time she does it she is self rewarding and this problem will get a lot worse and could end up with a terrible fight with a seriously injured or dead dog.

Many dogs do this from excitement but that can turn into being nasty unless you put management in place to make sure she can't do it. I find putting a dog like this behind a closed door or gate stops it. Eventually as she matures this will stop. I have taken in several aggressived dogs and solved the problems by good management, it is also less stressful for you and the dogs.

This has nothing to do with her wanting to be a leader, top of the pack etc,it is just an excitable dog getting over excited which good management will cure as long as she doesn't get the change to do this again.,
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Mattie
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 7:09 pm

Treats do not work with an over excited dog, they only work if the dog is normal and hungry. This is why I don't use treats a lot, there are too many times when they won't work.
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Angel
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 7:53 pm

basically the same sort of thing from my experience which is why i suggested making sure the dog as calmer and walked to take away engery before begining the training treats are acceptable then

what works for one wont always work for another dogs are all individuals but frm my experience it starts as excitable then becomes domainance
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Mattie
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 8:15 pm

Angel, when I post in threads like this I am not attacking anyone, I am trying to make it as clear as I can to the person asking for help as well as anyone who is reading it.

Dominance is out of date, later research has proved that the research that the dominance theory came from was warped, it used captured wolves and not wild ones. The pack structure is different. On my computer I have something written by the man who this theory came from and he says people have read his work wrong, he never talked about wolves being dominant. What people are taking as dominance is usually over excitement, a dog trying to find his boundaries etc. Think of a child who gets everything they want and how they push and push until they find a boundary, this is the same with dogs.
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Staffylover
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 8:50 pm

Mattie wrote:

Dominance is out of date, later research has proved that the research that the dominance theory came from was warped, it used captured wolves and not wild ones. The pack structure is different. On my computer I have something written by the man who this theory came from and he says people have read his work wrong, he never talked about wolves being dominant. What people are taking as dominance is usually over excitement, a dog trying to find his boundaries etc. Think of a child who gets everything they want and how they push and push until they find a boundary, this is the same with dogs.

Well said Mattie
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Angel
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Wed 16 Dec 2009, 9:48 pm

i was talking about traceys dog hun that went big time for the other and was nt to her excitment (didnt take offence either)

well i was only trying to help from my experience as everyone thinks differently i am a firm beliver in the asserting authority ways my 5 yr old son trys it daily lol everyone tries it as they get older its the ways of the world (being a gereatric mum as they call it now a days lol has its advantages as well as the disadvantages you see things differently ) and have to deal with it hmm animals are easier i always win the battles lol i dont always with him grrr and all animals will at some point try it too even rabbits do to belive it or not

aggression is just that not excitment and should not be mistaken for that as that in itself can cause more issues but everyone thinks differently and no one ways is the correct way for all everyone has a view and what works for one doesnt work for another sometimes it can ake a few ideas to find what works
but which ever it is training is best done when the dog has been walked and the worst of the engry used so they are calmer to work with it to me also makes for a more relaxed owner too so both are in the right frame of mind to work effiecently
bu i also gave good advice that will help (well i hope) which ever way it is just as you do hun :)))) but if it doesnt work then a diff approach should be sought
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Mattie
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Thu 17 Dec 2009, 7:50 pm

Angel wrote:
well i was only trying to help from my experience as everyone thinks differently i am a firm beliver in the asserting authority ways my 5 yr old son trys it daily lol everyone tries it as they get older its the ways of the world (being a gereatric mum as they call it now a days lol has its advantages as well as the disadvantages you see things differently ) and have to deal with it hmm animals are easier i always win the battles lol i dont always with him grrr and all animals will at some point try it too even rabbits do to belive it or not

I have 3 sons so know what you are saying here, they do keep testing the boundaries just like our dogs do but when we are writting on the internet giving advice we have to remember that words can have differtent meanings to people. I had a problem with some Americans because they kept saying to correct their dogs but wouldn't say what they meant by "Corrections" until one owner thought they meant hit their dog, the dog warned them off by growling and this owner came back on and attacked everyone. We then discovered that they meant doing something like telling the dog no as a correction. We habve to take this into account when giving advice on the internet, especially as we can't see what is happening so have to go gently. Gradually as well get more information we can expand on the advice.

Quote :
aggression is just that not excitment and should not be mistaken for that as that in itself can cause more issues but everyone thinks differently and no one ways is the correct way for all everyone has a view and what works for one doesnt work for another sometimes it can ake a few ideas to find what works
but which ever it is training is best done when the dog has been walked and the worst of the engry used so they are calmer to work with it to me also makes for a more relaxed owner too so both are in the right frame of mind to work effiecently
bu i also gave good advice that will help (well i hope) which ever way it is just as you do hun :)))) but if it doesnt work then a diff approach should be sought

Aggression is in the eyes of the person reading the dog in most cases, the majority of owners don't understand their dog's body language, they think a dog wagging his tail he is happy when we all know that a wagging tail can mean many things depend on the rest of the dog's body and where the do is carrying his tail. 99.9% of aggression is fear, excitement may look like aggression to an owner who doesn't understand dogs because of the way the dog is behaving. Again it comes down to reading the dog's body language.

As you say exercise is so important but it also needs to be mental as well as physical, many owners don't understand the mental exercise and get their dogs too fit by physical exercise, been there myself until I learnt differently.

I love discussions were we swop ideas because everyone's experience is different, they have handled different problems in different ways and by discussing these, we can all learn from them.

The most important part of giving advice on the internet is personal safety, we have to give advice that they can't interpretate as different to what we intend, now that is really difficult and I often get it wrong. We also have to sound confident in what we are saying even when we are terrified, that can come across as over confidence. So many things can go wrong when giving advice on the internet, I have seen dogs having to be pts because the owner misunderstood the advice, thankfully it wasn't mine.

With many problems, especially if a human or dog could get hurt like running out of a door into a road, good management has to be put into place first before they can start any training, this is just keeping both the dog and owner safe, once they are safe the owner can start to retrain their dog.
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babypink
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Thu 24 Dec 2009, 12:53 pm

Hi

Not sure if I am too late with this one but here goes. If it was a problem for me I would tackle the dog that is barking first by taking ownership of the door. If you can get someone to help you with knocking on the door and desensitising the dog to not bark when someone comes to the house, by distraction and reward. When your first dog barks it gets the other one really excited and when they are in that state there is nothing you can do about it, you got to nip it in the bud BEFORE the barking starts. Thats the difficult part

Get yourself between dog and door and get someone to knock on it, or if thats not right (hopefully its a glass door) get them to just walk upto it as the knocking could be the trigger. When dog does not bark reward, keep asking the person to walk to the door and repeat. Then try one knock on the door if dog does bark make sure you are between dog and door and get him/her to sit and when they are clam and only calm (the person should still be at the door) reward. get person to walk away and repeat. Meanwhile the other dog ideally should not be in the same room, its the dog that is barking that is the trigger and once thats tackled the second dog wont have its trigger ie first dog and all should hopefully calm down. Will take a while but you need to set aside time to do this and be patient.

Thats how I would try to tackle it and am not saying its right but have a go it is another option. Good luck
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Angel
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Thu 24 Dec 2009, 1:12 pm

very good advice there baby

persnally i hate gicing advice on forums mattie i owuld much prefer to go see the people ad the dogs myself and work with them one to one that try and put it in writing

thats why with tracey (i think) i asked her if she lived close enough for you to visit its so easy to miss understand i try to put it in basic words so it cant be taken the wrong way but its really hard to do i have to say

i once for a horse exam had to describe in simple terms and basically a few lines laminitis and its treatment off

ermmmmmmmmmmm thats impossible lol 10 pages later i got a distiction lmao hate to see what they wanted for in depth eek but some things are very hard to put across
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Mattie
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Thu 24 Dec 2009, 4:12 pm

You are right Angel, it is very difficult to explain over the internet especially as people think many words mean differently. Take the word correction, this was causing a lot of problems on one board because people's ideas of correction was different.

To some a correction is a punishment so when told to use a correction they punished the dog, this made the problem worse. Eventually we managed to find out that the person who orignally wrote the word correction meant a voice correction. If she had said in the first post to use her voice to correct the dog, the dog wouldn't have been punished and bit his owner.

As you know I will have a go at a post written wrong, this is the reason, putting it into words on the internet can be very hard but it is something we must do to avoid misunderstandings. Nobody gets it right all the time, all we can do is our best.

When doing my PTT I had to give a 5 minute lecture on beds and bedding, amongst this was deep litter, the examiner tried to show me up because she didn't like deep litter but as I had used it for years, and it isn't an easy option done properly, she got quite a shock when I was able to argue back. At the end when we were discussing how we did with the examiners, all she said to me was "I still don't like deep litter" ROFL
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Angel
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Thu 24 Dec 2009, 4:45 pm

lamo i dont do deep litter well i like it but my god as you say its not easy way at ll its hard work to maintain if you do it right def
i had one on that and 5 on normal it owuld take me longer to maintain the deep litter than the have the normal beds spotless and they are down right lazy too hehe sounds like that woman was too lol

deep litter is hard work but warmer and done correctly better too most instructors these das havent a clue on stable managment what so ever in fact half of them coning out of one college cant even ride :0)


now call me daft but how the hell can any normal intelligent person assume the word correction means to hit ???????? i mean we use that word to kids to and it dont mean hit them

that must have been awful for you seeing them take it that way
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Mattie
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PostSubject: Re: aggressive behaviour help   Thu 24 Dec 2009, 6:00 pm

I used to do a normal muck-out but leave about 2ins on the floor, had to pick up all the droppings first before lifting the bed. I would make the base level then put the straw down again making sure I gave the banks a good shaking. So many people don't shake the bankings then wonder why they cough so much when in the stable. The straw goes on in layers and comes off in layers.

Unfortunately not all people have a normal intelligence and as we can't see them we don't know until something like this happens. Then you get people asking for advice and English isn't their first language. Lots of reasons which I why I try to put things as simply as possible. Many read posts but never post either so these have to be taken into account.
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