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 I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(

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StaffySel
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PostSubject: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Sat 10 Jul 2010, 5:28 pm

Didn't have a very good day today :(
I was on my way to an open day at the Animal Shelter with my mum and Enzo. We had to park quite far away from the Shelter and walk through a housing estate, as we were walking along I spotted a big Husky type looking dog NOT ON A LEAD wondering around with no owner in sight anywhere. As we got nearer the dog came over and just sort of sniffed enzo and we kept walking, enzo was pulling trying to get to this dog and then started growling and the dog was following us we couldnt get away from it, we were saying LEAVE and ENZO NO but enzo was on his back legs and snarling and growling going for this dog nearly pulling me over, I was sharply tugging on his lead as I said NO but i guess it was too late. Eventually the dog left us alone. But it was enzo making all the noise, the other dog didnt growl or bark once.
I was so dissappointed in him, we hadnt even got to the shelter yet! This isnt the first time that he has done this. I thought it was a faze he was going through as he hasnt done it for a while. Ive been making sure he is kept on lead around every dog. Ive let him say hello a few times and he hasnt done it so I thought it was ok now but it must not be. :(

When we got to the animal shelter there was lots of dogs there. Enzo was pulling the whole time trying to get to other dogs. I kept him on a short lead and kept trying to keep him in check and making him sit everytime we were stood still.
We met another staffy and kept him away but the owner said its ok they just want to say hello. So I let him near and it all kicked off again! As they were both on lead, it stopped straight away.

But its so embarrassing. Enzo has always been a good dog, I used to take him to puppy classes when he was young and they said he was a credit to the breed. He is good as gold around children, he had lots of fuss from young children at the shelter and he was fine. And at home his is never a problem.

Maybe I havent sociallised him well enough. I think I am going to try and find a local dog trainer or classes

If anyone has any advise it would be appreciated.

From a not very happy selena
xx
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jakies13
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Sat 10 Jul 2010, 5:34 pm

Im sure that you have socialised him enough hun.
As perfect as dogs can be with each other they can still have their off days.
Maybe he felt a bit vunerable with a large dog off lead following him. And if you are tense he is going to pick up on it. So when you are approached try and breathe slowly and remain as calm as possoble. Its amazing how much it makes a difference.
Also he may of just been off due the weather and how hot it is.
Its been so hot here today. When i took Ruby out this morning we came across a younger staffy who tried to jump all over her and she growled and wasnt having any of it.
Shes normally fine with other dogs too.
Jjust see how you go but i think that the weather could of been a big contributer.
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StaffySel
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Sat 10 Jul 2010, 5:47 pm

Thank you, yeah I agree, I think he did pick up on me being worried and I did panick a bit. And he probably did feel vunerable and maybe was being protective also.
But I want to learn how to deal with it in the right way incase it happens again. I want to be able to control him because he wasnt listening to anything I was saying!
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Angel
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Sat 10 Jul 2010, 6:27 pm

i used to work there selena and you wouldnt belive how going in to that environment can change a dog we had loads of open days and people owuld come in with the most placid dogs that once in would turn in to loons so to speak the noise of all the dogs there barking it echos big time the people about and if hot the heat to all adds up to behaviour you wouldnt normally get

this weather makes the most placid people irrate its the same for all amimals to

if you get this happen again you need to remain calm and assertive but quiet to check him and make him sit to keep him listening to you if you still fele he is not responding quietly remove him from the problem and again make him sit and stay firm but quiet with him to reassure him its all ok

then when your feleing he is listening to you go back and try again you could also enlist the help of of ther dog walkers to try out this and see how he reacts as much to restore your confidence really i,m sure he will be fine and today was purely down to this horrid muggy hot weather
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jakies13
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Sat 10 Jul 2010, 6:34 pm

You could also for now try and divert his attention with a tasty treat.
If you could get someone to allow there dog to come up to Enzo on lead and you can distract him while hes being sniffed etc and reward his good behaviour. spinner smile
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StaffySel
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Sat 10 Jul 2010, 7:17 pm

Yes it was definately hot there today and lots of dogs everywhere and people so maybe it was a bit too much for him. The other day I took him to a busy car boot sale to get him used to being around lots of people and he was well behaved that day.


I haven't got any friends that have dogs otherwise I would try that technique of distracting him with a treat. But I may try it when Im out walking him as we are always meeting other dogs on our way.

Although it was hot today, it has happened before on not so hot days just when im out walking him.

I have just looked up on the internet a local trainer who runs classes so may look into this.

Thanks for the advise, a problem shared is a problem halfed.
ta
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Angel
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Sat 10 Jul 2010, 7:23 pm

it certianly is what part of glos are you in hun ?
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StaffySel
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Sat 10 Jul 2010, 7:25 pm

Im in C/Kings, Cheltenham

Gonna put some pics up of today in the other section bounce
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Staffylover
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Sat 10 Jul 2010, 8:07 pm

I do think training classes can help, if you ring the person that runs them and explain your issues beforehand she can plan for the class.

Reuben started to become reactive to other dogs despite going to training classes for over a year and being highly socialied, he was OK with a lot of them but then would lunge and snarl at the odd dog for what I thought was no apparent reason. I had a couple of one to ones with the trainer so she could see it for herself when we were out walking and from that we formed a plan of action so to speak.

I think training classes are great for socialisation, ours always have time off lead together before they start work and you can pick up some great tips
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Angel
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Sat 10 Jul 2010, 8:11 pm

your not that far from me then your more than welcome to bring him here to walk out with suki shes really good with all animals
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StaffySel
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Sat 10 Jul 2010, 8:20 pm

Thank u Angel bounce

I have emailed a lady and explained the problem and going to see what class she recommends. It will be good for him and us so we know the right way to deal with it and good like you said to pick up some tips on other areas
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Sat 10 Jul 2010, 8:37 pm

Your all forgetting one small detail scratch Enzo is a Stafford and what were staffords breed for ....... Fighting.
You may not like this part of the breed but its in them all, like herding sheep is still in the blood of pet breed collies that have never seen a sheep in their life ... they still get the urge to herd things.

My old girl was socialized from the day she could go out for walkies, she hit 2yrs old killed a cat and now hates other dogs on sight ( only young pups is she ok with).

I'm not having a go, as i'm sure your fully aware of a staffords history but you need to now learn to live with a DA Stafford.
They are a blinking nightmare, you need eyes in the back of your head, eyes that turn corners before you do and a very thick skin as your get "looks" for owning a nasty dog.

A dog behaviourised might be able to help IF a Stafford is one of them mouthy ones when on a lead, BUT a full on DA stafford a behaviourised can not tame.

Good luck with your boy, its now upto you to keep him out of situation were he can get at another dog.
If that means no more park walks, so be it.
I feel for you, group hug
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StaffySel
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Sat 10 Jul 2010, 9:09 pm

Oh yes I am taking this very seriously, not just putting it down to the heat although this may not have helped matters. I have already stopped him from being around other dogs off his lead and only taking it off when I know nobody is around.
And also have contacted a dog trainer that owns a Stafford her self so that I can hopefully learn how to deal with this in the best way.
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Sun 11 Jul 2010, 3:40 pm

hi

I feel for you having the same problems with Georgie andi ts upsetting I was in tears on Monday at training. Was at a competion this weekend but we could not risk running her. She did a few dummy runs in the comp environment and twice she ran off it was awful, last time i rugby tackled her ot the floor. during the comp, i was in the arena but made her lay down an dstay, and she was brilliant.

The team manager has been great too, I have to keep georgie busy, just throw in sits, stays and down, walk one way then the other. I admit when she was off lead with the Alsation it was to see if she would be agressive, and they were fine, we than used the other dog as a distration as I had a control collar on georgie, woul dyou believe it she ran stright past her and to me everytime. we then let them off lead and georgie this time ran off I used the remote collar and it blew gas under her chin and made no difference whatsoever to her, in fact she turned round and looked at her bum as if to say "I am sure I just farted"

we then did a lot of distraction recalls and she nailed it everytime but I do have my work cut out as thats with two people, i am on my own so think I will get my horses lunge line and try her with that for a while and lots abd lots of treats
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Staffylover
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Sun 11 Jul 2010, 3:53 pm

Good luck to you both
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Sun 11 Jul 2010, 4:17 pm

Best of luck with the trainnig. I really do hope it works out.

It may just be an age thing or a bit of nervousness, there is always the possibility that he may grow out of it. It may take a great deal of work but it will be worth it.

The only thing I can offer is firstly the same as JAKES13 said - try and keep calm as much as you can if other dogs approach.

Also I have learnt at times like this it is so important to make sure Enzo learns that you do not like this behaviour - he must understand that you are in charge and let him know you are not happy when he does this.

If you actually think he might bite or fight - don't be embarrassed to get a muzzle and use it when out and about near other dogs. He won't be the first dog to need one for little while.

fingers crossed for you. and try not to stress out - you are doing the right thing by dealing with it!!
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StaffySel
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Sun 11 Jul 2010, 9:29 pm

Thank you all,

I really do hope its just an age thing or something i can train him out of. He is usually really quick at learning new things, I just need to learn myself the right way to deal with it and then i will be dedicated to training him.

I also think it may be because he never plays with other dogs as I tend to put him on the lead around dogs now due to a few owners telling me to put him on the lead.

Hopefully going to training classes will give him the chance to meet other dogs again.

He means everything to me so I will do whatever it takes to teach him and i'll keep you all updated with his progress

spinner smile
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Mon 12 Jul 2010, 7:45 am

Good Luck with the training. Troy is not hundred percent around other dogs. He can tolerate and we keep moving, standing still makes the situation worse as tension builds up more.

I know I cant cure Troy, but I can take his mind off it using distraction. Its just part of him.
Definately have a go with the training and classes for both your benefit but he is a Sbt and its just part of the parcel at times huni.
Good Luck!! xxx
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StaffySel
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Mon 12 Jul 2010, 10:41 am

Thanx. Yeah I find standing still makes it worse, but the other day this dog was following us and wouldn't go away no idea where the owner was. But I couldn't stop enzo going at him. It makes me feel better knowing I'm not the only 1 going thru this xx
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Wed 01 Sep 2010, 7:59 pm

Hiya

I must say i,m going through same thing at the moment with Hoopy .... over the last 2 weeks when passing other dogs Hoopy has either growled at the other dog or growled back if other has done it to him.

i,m at stage if i see a dog loose i,ll turn and walk Hoopy in a different direction ... and praise him when good ...... Hoopy is 2 in 3 weeks is it an age thing as he never used to be like this .

My mate said it,s my fault for spoiling him ... when out jogging he is fine but walking he has changed some dogs he doesn,t bat an eye other the growling starts .... he was better today went walking and when a dog came i told him to sit and kept his focus on me and praised him after dog walked past ...... so gonna continue with that and see how it goes .


Good luck to you and Enzo i do know what your going though xxx
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Wed 01 Sep 2010, 8:06 pm

Good luck to you AJ, I hope this method works for you x

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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Wed 01 Sep 2010, 10:44 pm

We humans have this perception that our dogs MUST be good around all dogs. Why is that? We as humans do not like every person we meet and that is the same for dogs.

Why is that...because dogs pick up on energy immediately.

You can go to the dog park and try this one out. There might be 10 dogs...different breeds...different sizes...different sexes. Your dog will get along like a house on fire with some of them and not so much with others. Why is that....energy! One dog might be nervous and Enzo might not like that particular energy and that is ok too spinner smile Another might be calm and balanced and VOILA...a compatible energy.

Also...on leash and off leash are two completely different scenarios. On leash they feel and pick up on your energy. Were you nervous...scared...apprenhensive etc? They do not know the reason for us being nervous...they just know we are and react accordingly eg to be in "protect" mode because Mummy is worried.

Take Ruby for instance...she will put up with ANYTHING from Sumo, but if another dog tries to be too over the top with her...watch out. It takes her 24 hours to "warm" to ANY dog coming in our house. We just let her be...she will show lip and avoid, but I also know her. I know she is a calm and submissive dog and would probably rather flight than fight.

I trust Sumo, but if another dog gets in his face...stands over him it is probably not going to be pretty. He will not start a fight, but I am know he will finish it.

A little story for you...I met a lady on an Aussie Forum who has an older Stafford. Floyd is now 10 and she has had him since he was 7 years old. We arranged for us to come and visit for a couple of days with Ruby and Sumo...Sumo was 10 months back then. I said to her...any toys etc...please remove them, because 2 things that can start a fight are belongings and food. Things went ok...Floyd ignored Ruby, but was EXTREMELY humpy with Sumo...Sumo tolerated Floyd's antics.

Dinner time came...I was in the kitchen fixing Sumo and Ruby's food. They were sitting next to me. Floyd was sitting behind me and his owner was also in the kitchen. I gently pushed Sumo out of the way and said...give me space mate...and BANG...full on Stafford fight in the kitchen. Floyd attacked Sumo as soon as I pushed him out of the way. Floyd's owner just ran out and left it for me and my 15 year old son to separate them. Sumo had given Floyd a puncture wound 1cm from his eye...Sumo was not hurt.

We went outside for the BBQ and BANG...Floyd went for Ruby when she walked too close to the grill...we kept them separate from that point.

Morning came and my dogs were already up. We were outside and Floyd and owner came downstairs. Sumo saw Floyd and casually walked up to him with relaxed body language and tail relaxed as to say...morning mate how are you...and BANG Floyd attacked Sumo again. This time I was ready and fight only lasted 5 seconds.

We packed up and went home.

As much as we think we know our dogs...we just don't 100%. Floyd's owner had said he was fine with other dogs...that he often just ignored them. I wasn't very popular after when I said to her...look, your dog is NOT fine with other dogs especially in your home and when he is around you. He is most certainly not balanced and I just wouldn't let him off leash in dog parks etc. Needless to say we do not talk anymore ha ha

Good luck with Enzo and I also think a behaviourist might be what you need spinner smile
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Thu 02 Sep 2010, 7:27 am

I for one do not expect my dog to like all dogs and I know from experience that he doesnt. However what I do know is how to read his body language and I also know what types of dogs he does not like so know when he is likley to react and I will be needed to step in.
I think what we have to do is look at what we can do as owners to reduce these negative experiences for the dog and ourselves, I know when Reuben has a negaive interaction that I feel annoyed about it as I did not control it.
There may be some dogs that cannot be controlled but I do think if you find a method that works for you (and it may not be with every dog) then you should work with that.

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Last edited by Staffylover on Thu 02 Sep 2010, 8:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Thu 02 Sep 2010, 7:42 am

ive just made my mind up to accept that dell doesnt get on with every other dog, he was very friendly to begin with but hes been bitten on his back end so many times he seems to be on guard all the time when meeting new dogs. the absess he has on his back end now turns out to be from a dog bite.
All i can do is to keep him under control ( on lead ) when meeting or coming across new dogs.
Im sad that i know this will also happen with brock, but i cant see any way around it.
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PostSubject: Re: I think Enzo is Dog Agressive :(   Thu 02 Sep 2010, 9:06 am

Yep, same here, I have now learnt that Enzo just doesn't get on with dogs although I am working on it and still attending training lessons which helps with socialisation and gives me a chance to keep picking up tips and becoming pack leader.
It was just a shock at first because he always got on with dogs and has only just started doing this
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